A Fresh Perspective on God and Contact – UFO Garage Interview
Watch Reed Summers’ interview by UFO Garage, May 18, 2021.
Joe: This is another episode of UFO Garage.
Ben: I’m Ben.
J: And I’m Joe. And this is where we talk about UFOs, aliens and all things weird. So dude, pretty excited about this one, man.
B: Heck yeah!
J: Yeah, it’s gonna be a good one. We’ve got Reed Summers with us. And I know a lot of you guys out there, y’all absolutely loved the episode that we did with Justin. I think that’s one of the most views that we’ve gotten on any of them.
B: Most views, most comments, most interactions. I mean, people really resonate with the kind of the perspective that he kind of brought to the table. We haven’t really experienced that yet.
J: Yeah, so now we’re gonna be talking to Reed Summers. And his father is the one who actually received the messages and so, you know, Reed’s with us tonight and he’s gonna be, you know, chit chattin with us about what these messages are and kind of what they’re all about. So, Reed, if you don’t mind, say “Hi” to everybody, just kind of introduce yourself a little bit and tell everybody about you, man.
Reed Summers: Sure, well thank you for having me on Joe and Ben, pleasure to be here. I’ve been looking at the possibility of contact with other forms of intelligent life for a large portion of my life. And I think it’s one of the most important issues in the world today—one of the greatest stories not told— and potentially, the greatest event in human history, and yet, how few people are aware of it, my God.
J: Oh yeah.
RS: So it’s always great to have an open, candid conversation about what’s happening. What does it mean? What do we do about it? And consider this gigantic evolutionary event in human history.
J: Yeah absolutely, man, absolutely. So I think maybe a good starting point is explaining to us kind of what is Allies of Humanity? What is it that you guys, you know, you guys think? I mean, what is it all about?
RS: Sure. Well, the Allies of Humanity are a group of individuals who gathered in the vicinity of the Earth, gosh, over 20 years ago, and delivered a series of Briefings to my father, Marshall Vian Summers. And they delivered their first set of Briefings in 1997, and then three other sets of Briefings in the years following.
And their essential mission, as they stated, was to observe the very dangerous form of contact occurring in our world, which they call the alien Intervention, to warn us of this and to educate us about what life is like in our local universe, our neighborhood in space, which is something we would not be able to know otherwise without some gesture of assistance from those who know what that environment is like.
So, you know, I and many people around the world are studying these Briefings. They’re translated into dozens of languages. And I believe they present one of the most candid, clear and comprehensive pictures about the nature of contact—who is in our world, what they’re doing, and why they’re here—that you can find out there in a very confusing and polluted environment of competing, you know, theories and conspiracies and accounts that you’ll find out there. So I find it a huge breath of fresh air. And many, many people around the world respond the same way when they read these Briefings from the Allies of Humanity.
B: Yeah, I like the way you say individuals, because, I mean, my brain immediately thinks, okay, so there’s a species or multiple species of alien that are kind of on our side. That’s what I’ve been able to to put together. Is that kind of like just a short version of that? Or could you maybe elaborate a little bit on the Allies? You call them the Allies of Humanity, which is like a perfect name. So is it, am I correct in thinking that it’s a multitude of species that are kind of looking out for us in a way?
RS: Well, I think it would be helpful to step back and kind of look at the overall picture of our local universe because that kind of explains who the Allies are, who they represent, you know. Are they our friends? Are they neutral? So…and what I’m, what I can give you here is this picture provided by them in their Briefings, and also by a set of revelations received by my father alongside the Allies of Humanity Briefings, specifically to prepare and educate humanity about this enormous evolutionary step forward out into the universe of life in which we exist. So these two sources, the Allies of Humanity Briefings and the New Message, what we call the New Message, combine to present a picture, a very clear and grounded picture, of what life’s like out there.
And, in essence, in a brief account, it is a lot like life is down here. It’s nature on a vast scale. You have the primitive and the advanced. You have the altruistic and the self-serving. You have every level of development, every expression of physical form you can imagine out there in our local universe.
J: Yeah.
RS: And in this universe, survival is difficult. Resources are cherished and sought after for survival. Many advanced races develop technologically and end up outstripping their own worlds of their native resources, forcing them to trade, to, you know, go around the the universe looking for resource-rich worlds that they can either trade with or exploit. And here we stand on a beautiful little gem in the universe, thinking we’re alone, you know, like the natives in the jungle, thinking there’s certainly nothing but us and our gods and angels and demons. And unbeknownst to us, we’re sitting on one of the largest oil reserves in our local environment.
B/J: Yeah.
RS: And you know, in time a variety of characters appear at our shores and at the verges of our jungle— the missionaries, the traders, the politicians, the military leaders—and all of them saying, “We’re here to help you. We’re here to give you technology, advance you, cure your ills, heal your wounds. Just give us access to your environment. Let us stay here.” And that’s essentially what is happening, that when you read about or hear about the UFO phenomenon, the abduction phenomenon, the mutilation phenomenon, the collaboration between various groups and governments with seemingly extraterrestrial powers, what that is is a set of forces of divergent intentions and agendas arriving on the shores of our world, here for their own reasons, willing to tell us whatever we want to hear, whether it’s that our savior has come in the form of, you know, a religious founder, whether it’s that free technology is right here and we just need to receive it from them. Whatever the promise, they’re willing to make that promise. But they’re here for their reasons. And that is what we’re facing in this larger phenomenon of contact.
B: Yeah. I think a lot about the analogy. I mean, I think you mentioned it, but these tribes that are out in like the Amazon or these undiscovered tribes that we’re still finding today. I feel like there’s…I almost want to go to like, it’s a human thing for us to want to exploit and try to integrate these people. Like, “Hey, they’re fine by themselves. Like leave them alone.” But there’s some, I feel like it’s a human thing to want to push this, I guess, idea of progress on somebody who we think that has less. Do you feel like that idea of pushing progress, on a, let’s say, quote unquote lesser tribe or civilization is a human thing? Or do you think that’s just something that happens within the formation of life and the progression of life?
RS: Yeah…well, I think, you know, many colonizing forces throughout human history have used words like, “the white man’s burden,” or “manifest destiny” to justify what was essentially a resource grab. They were essentially there for gold, for spices, for minerals, for you name it. And that’s how it is out there as well.
And the first beings that we will encounter in the universe are those who came the long distance to be here for their reasons.The Allies reveal space travel is not a free and freewheeling enterprise. You know, it does…you can’t just go anywhere you want with an unlimited source of energy. It is expensive and risky and time-consuming to go places in the universe.
So yes, there is a, perhaps, an impulse to improve. And I think the Intervention that we are facing does have that intention, that justification of their deeper intentions, which is to improve us because they look at us like we look at cattle.
J: Right.
RS: They look at us destroying this beautiful world that they would use for themselves. They look at us divided into 170+ nations, you know, with even our union of nations, the United Nations, or unions of states unable to govern properly. And yes, they would say, “We could do better. And in fact, they [humans] have no right to be here and to rule this world because of the job they’re doing.” There are people who subscribe to that and say, “Yes, let the ET forces come. Let them govern.” And these are people who have lost faith in humanity and they have lost faith in human leadership. They have had their own sense of reality debased. And this extraterrestrial messaging has been put in their minds, either overtly or subtly, and there’s a lot of it going on out there behind the scenes. So to answer your question, I don’t think it’s an inherently human intention to improve upon the unruly natives. All colonizing forces would put forth that justification.
B: Yeah.
RS: Yeah.
B: Yeah. Wow, so, yeah, that’s kind of blowing my mind, just kind of thinking through all of that stuff. I mean, their own intentions is what would scare people, right? Like what are their intentions? I mean, have you guys been able to figure out what these…? I mean, let’s say, I feel like right now, maybe I need to step back, but I feel like there’s a good side and a bad side and I think the good side is, you know, the Allies of Humanity, right, that are trying to warn us and educate us about what’s actually going on in our neighborhood. And then you have these forces that are trying to, I guess, take over the planet. It was like the Orson Wells version of that sentiment. But do we know, like, what like, why do they need to take over the planet without, you know, war, you know? I feel like they’ve been at this for a long time politically and subconsciously. Do you…is there some kind of galactic rule that they can’t just come in here and just take things over?
RS: Yeah, good questions. Well, yes, there are rules that govern what different races can do out there. And as it turns out, the Allies of Humanity say that we live in a highly inhabited part of the universe where there are long-standing agreements and requirements for how interaction and trade and conquest can take place. And outright conquest is not allowed. Military invasion is not allowed. And in part, it’s not just a rule that governs over everyone out there. It’s that there are much better, more effective ways to make conquest successful in an emerging world like ours.
It’s important to understand that they want the resources of this planet, okay? They don’t want to destroy those. They need the infrastructure we have built over the last 200 years since the industrial revolution, whether it’s transportation, communication, the integration of economies worldwide. They need that. They need to use what we’ve made. They wouldn’t want to destroy that. And they need us. We are part of the resource, not only the workforce to extract it, but actually and unfortunately, part of the biological resource itself . And that gets into kind of the darker aspects of the Intervention’s activities. But I think it’s important to understand that our local universe is an expression of nature. It’s neither an entirely spiritual or entirely loving, or an entirely fearful, universe. It’s what it is. It’s nature.
B: Yeah.
RS: So what we need is to become aware that this enormous event is taking place that will change every aspect of life on Earth in a very potentially beneficial way—we can talk more about that—and also to undergo an education and a preparation for this. I mean, we have to become human beings 2.0, truly, to engage in this greater arena of life, and not just become, you know, a client state of a larger power, to not just devolve into conflict and war over, you know, who has access to the visitors’ gifts of technology and who has access to the visitors’, you know, to their ear, to their, you know, to their capabilities.
B: Yeah.
RS: So it’s a big time awareness/education/preparation process up ahead for us. That’s really what I’m about. That’s what the Allies are about. And all those people in the world who are reading and studying and advocating for that message, that’s what they’re about. This is fundamentally about becoming united as a race so that we can engage in the larger panorama of life beyond our race. It’s even, you could, I mean, even if I’m wrong, even if the Allies are not real, even if there’s no Intervention, essentially what they advocate is the preservation of the Earth’s environment and resources in a self-sufficient way for us, the unification of human societies in an equitable way that honors diversity, and our discretion in the local universe, not broadcasting out into space everything we think, do, and believe for everyone else to listen to and to watch and observe. So those three fundamental activities that the Allies encourage, I mean, why not?
J: Yeah. So I find it interesting. So if we were to achieve this becoming, I guess, human 2.0, how would that then…you know, would the invaders, or the colonizers, whatever we want to call them, would they, I mean, would they be like, “Oh, maybe we shouldn’t go there”? Or even if we did become humans 2.0, would they still be trying to take this planet and our resources from us? I mean, is this something that happened to the Allies themselves and that’s why they know about this and they’re warning us? Or, I mean, how does that work?
RS: Yeah, it’s a big picture, big and very interesting picture. Yes, the Allies did experience Intervention into their worlds. That is why they’re here. They’re here in a reciprocal gesture to another emerging world going through what they went through
J: Wow.
RS: They, too, say they were served by another set of forces, Allies to their societies, who came and warned them.
B: Wow.
RS: And in many cases, the Allies who have come to our world say that their races did not become aware of the Intervention that was taking place. They did not unite around it. They actually succumbed to many of its inducements of free technology, of peace, of salvation and redemption, and as a result, became a very fractured world. And it was only through great conflict, loss and destruction that they recovered their freedom from these collectives, what the Allies call collectives, which are these multiracial, resource exploiting organizations that weave themselves into the psychology and into the biology of the emerging world, that race. And it is only through great travail that they can be repelled later on. And so the Allies urge us to become aware contact is happening and that it is an Intervention. It is not a friendly visitation. That is their essential message.
J: It’s kind of cool because, you know, this whole topic is almost like, you could almost use it as a metaphor to the way we live today, you know, just like as regular human on human contact. I mean, you’ve got the masses, you know, of the whole world and then, you know, you seem to have like these giant corporations and things like that that are, you know, exploiting these resources around the world. And there’s a few people who are saying, “Hey, you gotta be careful. You gotta watch out for these guys, you know.” And they’re warning, you know, the public and the public, for the most part, is so content with their day-to-day life or they’re so busy that they don’t tend to pay attention to stuff like that, you know. And now you’re starting to see more people starting to kind of wake up. And it’s like, “Oh yeah, they are destroying the rain forest.” Or “They are exploiting these little islands with these tribes on it.” And, you know and we’re starting to see that now and you’re starting to see kind of this push back in our own society. It kind of seems like this whole issue is almost like on that next step, that next level, so once we can conquer that, like here on Earth with our with ourselves, then it’s something that we could, you know, really start to focus on, you know, on this galactic level.
RS: Right. That’s really interesting you bring that up. It is analogous in many ways to this modern world and the ancient world. I mean, human history is a history of colonizing and invading forces, neutralizing other peoples, absorbing them, and then falling apart themselves and being reabsorbed into another invader. And no wonder because that happens in nature as well. And so we need to consider that we live in a universe like that. To get back to your earlier question, “Will there be more Interventions, even if we become human beings 2.0?” Yes. They will not stop. That’s because we’re in an environment where there are forces that are built around this. This is what they do. It’s like you can’t go into a mall and not be advertised to, right?
B/J: Right.
RS: It’s what it is. You can’t go into politics and not have people attacking one another. It’s what happens. I mean, you can be a person of a greater awareness, of a more spiritual inclination and greater commitment to values, and walk through those environments and influence them for the good. And that is exactly what the Allies of Humanity want for humanity, that we not become a client state, that we not become an intervener, you know, a predatory race ourselves in 100 or 200 or a thousand years, that we become a society that honors the values of our spiritual nature, the importance of compassion and relationship between beings, the preservation of environment, and that we could contribute that as a race, and so that we could become Allies to another emerging world ourselves.
So there’s this huge narrative that’s forming around humanity and our place in the world and in the universe at this moment. Even with what we’re facing right now with this Covid pandemic—the increasing fracturing of modern nations, the economic instability of this nation—we are undergoing a process older than time, well, not quite older than time, about as old as time, where races become more technological, more secular. They strip their worlds of their world’s own resources and they become dependent on these powerful networks beyond them that then dictate life as they know it. And they lose their freedom and they become absorbed into this network of competition and conflict, whereas they had the potential to be a part of another network, a network of a greater force for good that’s moving the universe as well.
So we’re making contact right now with the other 99.99999 percent of life. And there’s risks in that we’re facing Intervention; that’s our first contact, just like the natives did in the history of human societies. But we’re also becoming a part of a larger arena where we can express what is good, and maintain and preserve what is good. And we live on this beautiful planet, you know, and what a gem, what a precious thing we have as a human race that we could protect and make real a hundred years from now. And you’re right. There is a almost like a battle line being drawn on that front in the world today.
J: Yeah. I mean, so do you think, at some point, if we don’t kill ourselves first, and we do reach this human 2.0, do you think, at some point in our history, we’re gonna have to raise our “come and take it flag” and tell those guys, “I’ll be your huckleberry”? You know, like, are we gonna eventually have to, I mean, fight these guys off? Or is there a way, to like, peacefully, resolve this issue? Or, you know, I mean what can we do about it?
RS: Well, it’s important to know what’s happening now, what they are doing that we would then repel or resist. The Intervention is not a military force. They’re not a large force. They’re not everywhere. They come a long distance with a few crew, limited supplies and a very specific mission, which is to genetically alter the human race to produce a leadership that is aligned to them that will govern this planet according to what they want into the deep future, to secure the resources of this world for themselves, and to generate broad human support for their presence here so that they are allowed to be here, because again, they are not allowed to militarily conquer another world.
J: Right.
RS: They have to be invited. So they are a small force operating in very specific ways, operating in corridors of power and influencing the thinking, the broad thinking, of billions of people. That can all be…Now that we know that, how do we resist that? How does that end, right? Amazingly, we don’t need to take up arms against them, physical arms. We need to generate awareness. We need to reach four percent of the world or five percent of the world, a couple hundred million people, with the basic awareness where that we’re not alone in the universe, that our world is probably a rare one and might be desired by others, and that we are being visited, and that the visitors are engaging in almost entirely negative behaviors that indicate a negative intent for us. If that awareness could be given to millions of people, that would be the beginning, right? Yes, there are other steps that need to be taken into the deeper history or the deeper future, rather. But it’s really awareness, it’s education, and it’s specific forms of action.
B: So I’m thinking…I mean, I maybe, this is just my lizard brain, no pun intended, but my lizard brain talking. But again back to Joe’s point, like at some point I feel like to propel something, you would have to be physical. But what I’m hearing from you is maybe there’s a consciousness aspect of this where…I think Justin had mentioned, that in order for these, you know, these forces to kind of claim our reality, we have to accept them, we have to take that forbidden fruit. So I’m kind of getting this like whole vibe of we have to be conscious. And you’re saying like, yeah, we have to be aware which that is…just elevates your consciousness. And being just, you know, aware, I’m just saying the word aware a bunch. But I get, what are your thoughts on the relationship of consciousness versus physical? Is it…have these messages spoken anything to that aspect of consciousness?
RS: Oh, hugely. And the New Message, the other body of Revelation received by my father, Marshall Vian Summers, is entirely about that. It is basically teaching that there is a deeper spiritual Mind within us, and that the closer we are to that, the more connected, the more it is able to influence our thinking and to guide us in life; the more protected our minds will be from any form of manipulation or influence, whether it’s human or extraterrestrial; and our minds will literally not be the soil in which the seeds of the Intervention can grow. And they will move on. They will because the minds of this world are not that naïve. They are not willing to associate anyone who shows up at their door with a savior so automatically, and with the suspension of disbelief, right?
These…the mind is the soil in which the Intervention is working and gardening and growing things right now. So I was just thinking, you know, before we started our conversation together, how one of the activities of the Intervention is to associate the symbology of an extraterrestrial—the face, the craft—with positive things: with salvation, with spirituality, with indigo children, our precious little children, right, to associate, to associate because they know the mind is associative. It’s when, then, you see that face you will think positive things; you will associate the benefit that you would want for your own life, right? They don’t want that face to be associated with the images of conquest or the images of manipulation.
So they are very carefully stewarding the messaging in our world regarding them. And all the while, they are associating negative things—conflict, war, pestilence, corruption—with us! So now when you see a human politician, you think corruption. When you see an extraterrestrial face, you think savior. Right? And so this is in essence mental warfare; it’s a more elevated form of combat. And we are very weak mentally as a race. We’ve only ever dealt with each other. We’ve never had to deal with another form of intelligent life, which would be extraordinarily demanding. The Allies talk about that. And so we tend to think alike. We tend to react alike and in very predictable ways. And our minds are like open soil for anything to grow. And who would believe weeds are growing in this soil? So the consciousness factor is key: How connected are we to this spiritual mind of Knowledge within us?
B: Yeah.
RS: How aware are we of our planetary existence and our human citizenship? How identified are we with tribes, nations, groups, versus being a part of a human family? This is awareness you could say, or level of consciousness. It’s what are you conscious of and how connected to reality is that? So the more reality based we become and the more broad a reality we are living within—larger context you could say—our consciousness is growing. And when that happens, the Intervention cannot function here.
J/B: Wow, wow. So I guess, so with your father receiving these messages and we’re dealing with, you know, alien contact, has…I don’t know if you can answer this, but has anybody in your organization or you or your father, has anybody been contacted by maybe some alphabet agency of sorts wanting to know information that you guys might have or anything like that? Because it seems like in this field, people who acquire certain types of information usually get a little visit from somebody. A little visit. Yeah.
RS: Yeah, it’s happened a few times. Yes.
J: Ah! And so kind of in my head what I’m thinking is, you know, for 70+ years you know, the powers that be have kind of, you know, lied and shrugged this whole thing off and basically said, you know, aliens aren’t real and this and that. It kind of makes me wonder if maybe the people that have been lying all along, actually maybe knew a little bit about what you’re talking about. And instead of coming out and saying aliens are real, they just thought it was easier to chalk it off as fake and make the public believe it’s fake. Because if we are…if we do have to invite them in in order for them to come here, you know, it’s easier to not invite them. If people just think it’s all fake you know.
RS: Right.
B: Yeah.
RS: Right.
B: That’s a really good point. Yeah I love that. And I kind of have a follow-up question, Reed. So I know our listeners will probably have the same question but is…I know we’ve gotten really far down this journey, but I kind of wanna, if you will like just visualize how this, your father had these messages. Could you explain a little bit? I’m just really curious in the details like, was it an experience, was he, was he visited physically by entities or was this in his mind kind of thing? Could you maybe explain a little bit about that?
RS: Yeah sure. Yeah big time story there and I don’t have time to tell it all but maybe…
B: Yeah maybe.
RS: Just hopefully we’ll write a book. It’s well worthy of a great book…
B: Okay.
RS: …a story of my father and how this all happened. But I can give it in brief. Basically, he was working as a special educator for the blind and began to tune into this voice experience in how to work with these, you know, severely challenged young individuals. This voice experience wasn’t just his higher self; it wasn’t just a deeper aspect of his own brain. It became Angelic. It became some sort of communication from what he now feels is an Angelic Source that would begin to guide him on how to work with people.
That Angelic source then directed him to leave his work suddenly. It moved him here, it moved him there. It had him wander in the desert for nine months. And after nine months it came to him and told him directly, in a very shocking and like Earth-shattering encounter, that he would be called to receive a series of messages for the world related to our world’s emergence into what it calls the Greater Community, the universe in which we live—that’s what that means. That was the beginning of the New Message; that was in 1983. And in the years since, Marshall has received somewhere close to six, seven thousand pages of this communication.
B/J: Wow!
RS: Which yes, I know, it is wow. It is.
B: We’re wow guys; we say wow a lot. But that is very, that’s…
RS: I do too. And I read these texts frequently and they’re now being published into books. We actually have one of these communications, a book, is being published this July called Preparing for the Greater Community. It was received over 20 years ago. And it is an entire exposé of the nature of life beyond our world, how the human race needs to prepare for it—the inner preparation at the mental, the psychological, the spiritual level for the individual. So it’s just a huge message.
And it was halfway into this process of receiving this Divine or Angelic communication that Marshall was told he would be receiving another communication from another source entirely, and that this would be an extraterrestrial communication, a communication by a group of individuals who were actually called to come to our world by the exact Angelic Presence that was delivering the New Message from God, which was what Marshall was receiving.
Why would that be? Well, because the Divine, the Angelic, they work in our world, they work in the universe. They see a need on Earth. They saw a need for others in our local region who knew what we had been through…I’m sorry, who knew what we would be going through because they had been through it, to come out and extend a hand to us and tell us what they knew. And that culminated in the Allies of Humanity Briefings, which were…which began to be received in 1997.
And the way this all happened, Marshall was, in a sense, in all of these revelation events—and there are hundreds of them, all audio recorded by the way; you can listen to the original event, the original Voice that spoke through him; it’s all up on the New Message website at newmessage.org, these audio recordings—he would be, in essence, overtaken by this Higher Power.
B: Wow.
RS: And it would use his voice to speak this message. And he had no idea often what would be spoken. It would be in a voice not his own. This is…you will hear these audio recordings this is not my father’s voice; this is another Voice. And when this Voice was over, Marshall often would feel like he did a day’s work, or two days’ work, in the space of 45 minutes, exhausted. Yeah, and he would not know what they said exactly. It was only after listening to it or reading the transcript that we would see what was spoken. And what was spoken is just crystal clear communication—hundreds, thousands of pages of a message really trying to prepare our world for this event of contact.
B: So at this point, I’m thinking like, wow that’s amazing, number one. But number two, like I’m thinking, okay my cynical part is oh so are you guys just trying to like sell this idea? But you guys are just giving all this stuff away, like you’re not trying to profit off of this thing. That’s the most beautiful part about it. I mean…
RS: We make all the books—all the books—free online.
J: Yeah!
RS: And this Message is being translated into over 30 languages, and all of that goes free online once the translation is done. And yes, we do have books for sale because books cost money to make. But the text, the core communication, the audio that we have, is free online.
B: Right, and your newest book, the fourth one, is 99 cents, correct, like that’s…
RS: Well, it’s a message for Earth…
J: Yeah.
RS: …from the Allies of Humanity. And the text is free online, too, and in over a dozen languages. So you’re right, I mean, we’re not…
B: You’re not trying to make money off of this. This is…what I’m trying to say is it seems very genuine.
RS: You know, Marshall was not setting out to do any of this; this happened to him. And he was willing to play a part and to have this happen in the center of his life, in the center of our family. You know, we’re not out there to make, you know, to make dollars or to make a name or to influence people. We are the recipients of this amazing communication for planet Earth. And it is our mission and our joy to give this to people. That’s why I’m spending my evening with you guys…
B: Exactly yeah.
RS: …and to contribute this. And people can listen to this. And if it resonates, good; if it doesn’t, that’s okay too. And it’s a gift.
J: One of the things that kind of stuck out in my mind is, you know, when you’re talking about your father and how he was kind of pulled away from his regular life and, you know, spent these nine months in the desert, you know, a couple things come to mind, you know, like one people…like Moses, you know. You have all these biblical characters, you know, even even, you know, like Muhammad or all these like certain figures throughout history who apparently have received messages. And they seem to come like, you know, a few thousand years apart from each other. Every now and then, there’s somebody who receives these messages from from God. Do you think maybe your father is just maybe the next in line? And you know, these characters, they all seem to have been, you know, unsuspecting of what was happening and they were very surprised that, “Well, I’m just starting to receive these messages. I don’t know anything about it, but I…you know, it seems to be good. Maybe we should write this down and tell the people about it,” you know? Is that kind of maybe something that…
RS: Yes.
J: …happened to your father?
RS: That is what has happened here. That kind of Angelic or Divine event, that individual chosen, having their life blown up…
J: Yeah.
RS: …having this huge thing happen through them that was challenging and threatening and, you know, not what they had in mind. And that is exactly what has happened to Marshall Vian Summers. And as his son, having been at the center of my family for my 35 years, I have seen this process. It is amazing. It is one of these great stories and one of these events that brings a huge infusion of truth and spiritual power into the world all around a huge evolutionary threshold, you know, something really necessary. And most people don’t know about that yet, but they will. In the years and decades ahead, they will know that our world is being visited.
B: Right.
RS: And that will change everything. That is the greatest event in history. And that God would speak again, that a Messenger would be chosen to receive that Message, it makes sense.
B: Right.
RS: You know, it’s like yeah, we would need something like that for something as big as this.
J: So usually when when people talk about aliens, you know, there’s, you know, I would say there’s a lot of nuts and bolts kind of science people, you know. Then you got…you get into the realm of like well, there’s like these spirituality aspects of these ET interventions. But one thing I don’t hear very often is this connection between God—we’re using the word God, right?—and the extraterrestrials. What is this God–extraterrestrial connection? And so is God giving these extraterrestrials the same message and He’s also giving your father these messages, and the allies are just kind of there to back it up and help the move the process along?
RS: Yeah, it’s…I know it’s a big thing to consider that God and extraterrestrial contact would be connected. But they are. I mean, the universe in which we live is what God created. And believe me, humanity is not at the center. And I know that’s a big pill to swallow.
B: Yeah.
RS: But the New Message from God is a Revelation about God in this larger universe: what God created, where we fit in it, what is the plan for humanity, who am I, who am I the individual alive as a human being today. All of that is very extensively addressed in the New Message. And it makes sense because as you come into contact with the environment that is billions of times bigger than you ever thought it was around you, this environment we live in, it’s going to totally change our notions of origin, destiny, redemption, you know, spirituality, soul—everything.
So here we’re experiencing this prosaic event: contact with other physical forms of life in the universe. And we’re receiving a communication from God because we are spiritual beings undergoing contact.
And in truth, what is the universe? Well, the universe is what God created to allow those who wanted to be apart from God to experience, you know, free will, to create. That’s what the universe is. That’s what the New Message says about it. And so as we undergo contact, we’re also opening up the next chapter in our spiritual evolution. It’s extremely tied in. And our expression as individuals—who we are, what we carry, the gift we have to offer the world, the service we have to offer—for many people, it’s connected to this event. And it will be within this event that they will find its expression. And then that will fulfill them, their presence, in manifest life. So we’re dealing with a physical event in contact, but it represents the next step spiritually for us, as well. It’s very important for that reason.
B: That’s great. I can’t help but to say this…I just as you’re speaking, Reed, I just had this idea like it’s kind of a cool idea. I’m not a very religious person, but I do believe that there is a God. And I’m just thinking like, man, we have…I feel like we as humanity have this really microscopic view of God, right? Like we have the guy in the Bible, right? And he’s everywhere and just you know he’s out…he’s looking out for us or he’s making things happen and everything has a plan. But I feel like that’s just our human little, little shell that we’ve made around this thing that’s an actual real thing. And I feel like maybe when we go through this process of of opening our minds and transcending into this human 2.0, as we’ve said a lot in this podcast, maybe we’ll have a greater understanding of the breadth or the reach of the understanding of what or who God is, right? Like we personify things, but absolutely maybe it is just a what…
J: Yeah, because I feel like one of the biggest things is, you know, a lot of people are becoming less and less religious and I I think it’s because the religions that we have on Earth have stopped, have, you know, stopped growing, you know? They are stuck in the past. And as we evolve and seek understanding, there’s just certain things that it can’t explain. And one very interesting thing that I’ve heard you say on other shows is, you know, this isn’t like this is for, you know, this is for Christians, this is for Muslims, this is for atheists. This is for everybody. It’s not like a religion of sorts. It’s a Message for humanity.
RS: Exactly. This is…it is a Message. And it’s for those who have a religion, those who don’t. It’s for people in every situation in life, every stage of life, every ethnicity, culture, religion—everything. I mean, this is how when God wants to reach the world, it doesn’t happen through a religion only. It happens through a Message that comes through Revelation through a Messenger and also a Message that arises within us. I mean, God touches us directly. I mean, it doesn’t come through an intermediary, you know. But occasionally God must speak a specific Message to all people and not everyone, you know, seven billion different messages that are more personal in nature.
But this thing about religion and people becoming less religious, I know. And it makes sense. Our modern world is growing and eclipsing the very Revelations, ancient Revelations, that were given to reveal, you know, that world in which we lived. Something new is needed, something that doesn’t box God in to some sort of human projection, you know, of a father, of a judgmental lord, and also doesn’t make that exclusive to one culture, one group of people.
I feel many people in the world are ready for a New Message from God that presents a God of the universe in which we live, something more universal, something more experiential. And one of the books in the New Message is called The One God. And it presents a number of revelations on this topic. And it really clarifies that God is not an individual, a person, a personage, a judgmental individual like we would maybe picture that. That is old. That is the God we have made.
B: Like personification of things.
RS: Right. And oh yes, humanity…we have used and abused what God has given, and even the real, the authentic stuff. And we have made God in our image. We have used God to control others. People are massively turned off from those expressions.
T: Absolutely.
RS: And I understand. And they’re also cueing into the fact that they’re an individual, they’re not just a member of a group, you know, an automaton, you know, shaped and conditioned by someone else, and then…They’re seeking to understand themselves: “Who am I? What do I need to do with my life?” It’s a unique journey. And people don’t feel that religion contains that journey for them. I understand. That’s why there’s a New Message from God in the world. Because the New Message is all about that journey. It is about coming home to yourself, who you really are, where you came from, what you’re here to do in the world, who you’re here to meet. So it’s like a Wow…talk about a 2.0
J: Yeah, yeah absolutely.
RS: This is God 2.0, Religion 2.0, Humanity 2.0. Yeah.
J: Yeah, you know and for me, I mean it’s kind of, it really does kind of hit home because I grew up in an extremely Catholic family. Nowadays I’m not a practicing Catholic. I mean, to me you know, this church and the rituals and all this stuff that we do like for God and this and that. My parents would always say, “You need to go to church, you got to do this, you got to do that.” Well to me, I could walk down the street or in the woods, or just wherever and I feel like I’m closer to this God or Source or whatever you want to call it. I feel like we use the term God for just lack of a better word.
B: We say Source a lot.
J: Source. I feel closer to that outside of that building than I ever would inside of that building. It just doesn’t resonate with me. There was another really interesting thing that you had said that it’s strange because everything that I’ve looked through the site.—I have some of the literature from you guys—it really does kind of like…it piqued my interest for sure because you’re right, it doesn’t box this God in the way that our current religions and current models do. It really kind of opens it up to being this thing that you really…it’s bigger than you could ever even understand. You had said in one of your videos, you had read on this sign something about, “Jesus —the only way to God.” Right? You had an issue with that, and I’ve always had an issue with that. I’ve never felt that I had to go through somebody else to be close to God. Like if I wanted to talk to God I could do it right here, right now, and I don’t need anybody else.
RS: Yeah absolutely. God is an experience. It’s you and where you came from. It’s you and who is with you, the Unseen who is with you. I think we need to come back to that experience. I think that’s where our power is. That’s where our compassion stems from. That’s where our deeper resources to live a fruitful and purposeful life and to serve this world that’s going to be going through huge challenges in the years ahead. Where does that come from? Is that just strong will? Is that determination. Is it ambition? I don’t think so. I think it’s an experience of a greater life that we are a part of. And you can call that God; you can call that Source; that’s fine. The New Message from God is a Message from that Source, that Presence, that abiding Mind that underlies all life in the universe, right, and supports its reuniting together, its return back to a unified state. I mean, that’s what the New Message says it is here to do and where it comes from.
B: Yeah. So kind of changing gears a little bit Reed, maybe bringing it into the present a little bit with some news. The Pentagon has…I don’t know if this is way out of left field, but I kind of just want to see where your thoughts are. We know we talk about these forces. Let’s just say for lack of a better term good and evil that are I guess surrounding us. We’re talking about Allies of Humanity. What do you think these forces of this Message of…okay these aliens, or not aliens; I’m sorry. I’ll back up for a second. But the Pentagon has said these videos, we don’t know what they are. And they don’t come out and say it’s a threat. I think that was To The Stars Academy, that kind of painted a picture. If we don’t know what they are, they’re a threat to us, right? Do you have anything to say on that? Do you think that’s some kind of leaning towards some kind of agenda? Or does that fit into anything that you have received or your father has received or projected?
RS: Yeah, you know I’ve looked into this quite a bit over the last year or two since that New York Times article first broke that story. And I can’t quite put my finger on whether this is the intentional progressive revealing of what’s happening in order to acclimate people to it, if it’s totally random, “Hey, these videos just leaked and you know, sorry and here’s something.”
B: Oops.
RS: Or if there are factions in the government, this government, other governments, that know that we’re experiencing Intervention, hybridization, that these forces are integrating themselves into our societies and they don’t know what to do. They want to slowly inform people, wake them up to this.
The huge endless river, really, of documentaries you see on tv and on the History channel and Hollywood films that keep kind of churning out on this arrival topic, this contact topic. What is the intention here? Is it pure fiction? Is it just a good story? Is it people…they think, people are just always curious, right, about the unknown? Or is there an intention to quietly acclimate us or to quietly warn us? And I think both have happened. We’ve been told that the western governments, specifically in the US, have been more resistant to the Intervention and actually have tried to thwart it, and that the Intervention is probably seeking safe ports of call in other parts of the world.
And is that part of the conflict we see in the world today? Possibly. The Intervention will seek any little crack or crevice in the wall of this world to penetrate and slowly weaken so that they can get in. Whether that’s existing conflicts between two major nations in the world, whether that’s distrust of human authority, whether that’s theories about human corruption and malfeasance, whatever it is—whatever it is—they’ll use it. So I don’t…to answer your question, I do not know where that’s coming from. But I do know through the Allies that there are certain factions in government that have resisted the Intervention in the west especially. And beyond that, I really can’t say.
B: Wow. I mean “the west” being America. Right? Like western culture. I feel like a friend of mine asked me, “Why don’t you hear about aliens or sightings or experiencers in let’s say India, the most populated country in the world?” And I say, “Well there’s probably, that’s happening, you just, I mean do you read Indian news, do you listen to Indian podcasts?”
RS: No, I don’t. I don’t myself.
B: Oh I’m sorry. I phrased that weirdly. I guess I was talking in the past tense to my buddy who asked me. Like why does it happen in other? It seems like it only happens in America all this stuff. But it’s happening worldwide. And I have a point to that, that point is so the purpose of this Message. I mean we want to get this thing worldwide and you spoke about the New Message and I guess is it all the books that have been translated into how many languages, four?
RS: I think 30, 32.
B: Thirty-two? Oh my goodness.
RS: Not all of the books, but it actually…there’s 70 people who are translating every week into 32 languages. And so every week it rolls out further and further.
B: So are they like a bunch of dudes sitting in one building with quills, just like straight up?
RS: No. These are inspired readers who are volunteering hundreds of hours of their time to get this message out…
B: That’s beautiful.
RS: …into their countries. And yeah, it is beautiful.
B: Yeah, that’s so awesome. I’m thinking of all kinds of questions to ask you here. I’m like spitballing my brain.
J: I’ve got one. Okay, let’s kind of talk about you and your story. I mean, how did you get to this place? Were you always kind of like…when this happened, were you like, “Oh my goodness, I think Dad’s crazy”? Or did it take you some time to kind of warm up to it and then you kind of started following along? Or have you always just been into it?
RS: Well, I’ve got my own story to tell and it’s a long one, too. But I came home to help my father bring this message to people about, gosh it was in 2004, so about 16 years ago. And then that was the result of my own personal revelation. I was living and working in the Middle East. I had my own agenda for myself, my fulfillment, my plans in life. Something came and pulled the rug out from under me. This happens. We have plans and then something happens, and we get rerouted onto a different highway of life and we go somewhere we never thought we would go.
Marshall, my father, never expected or assumed I would help him. He and my mother gave me a wonderful loving family and support to go to college and go out there and have a career and all that. And something…It was back in 2004 when the rug started to move and I started to look around and think, “Wow, something’s changing. There’s something I need to know here. The direction of my life is not right. I need to go in another direction.”
And I had a series of kind of mysterious events that led me to come home to help Marshall bring this Message out. And I’ve been doing that ever since. And it’s been a road to haul. It’s been a long one. And it’s not easy. People don’t want—some people—don’t want to hear this Message. Some people are very offended by it. It’s a challenging Message because it’s real. It’s not what we want; it’s what we need. I hope in time it will become more of what we want. But it’s not a sales pitch for our personal fulfillment or an adventure in consciousness. It’s an urgent Message for the people of this world to wake up, prepare and get ready to go through something really big.
And so that’s my work is helping share that out. And I’m with all these wonderful people here in Boulder, Colorado, and around the globe. I think we have over 70 people working, volunteering with us in our organization. We publish. We do events. We broadcast. We have a major multi-day event coming up, all online in the virtual, in the next couple weeks. So it’s really special to gather with hundreds of people who are reading this, studying it, undertaking the preparation. The preparation is centered in the book Steps to Knowledge, which I highly recommend folks take a look at and download. It’s free online.
I remember I started steps when I was 16 years old and it blew me away. It was way, way, way beyond what I was able to do at the time. But I’ve been with it ever since. And it’s slowly moving you into greater connection with yourself, with this spiritual ground that you stand upon, which is you, who you really are. Because that part of you is totally connected to the world, where the world’s going to the Greater Community in which we live. It’s the surface mind, the mind that thinks and wants and schemes and believes and hopes and wishes—that’s the mind of the world that the world shapes and that is increasingly influenced and, at times, manipulated by these powerful forces at work on planet Earth at this time. So coming in contact with this deeper spiritual Mind is my practice every day. It’s what I’m doing. And that’s my gift to the world. It’s my preparation for the Greater Community. So that’s me in a nutshell.
B/J: That’s great man. Yeah that’s great. Do you…or I mean, so does your father or do you maybe…does he consider himself like a prophet of sorts or does he just consider himself a regular dude who just so happened to come across these Messages?
RS: Well, I think in time…again this began in 1983. So it’s been almost 40 years of constantly receiving this communication. Marshall in the beginning did not know who he was, who was talking to him, who the Source of this was. He was just willing to go with it. Thank God. It’s more in recent times that the New Message has told him who he is. It has said to him, “You are a Messenger for a New Message from God, and you were sent into the world for this,” just like we were all sent into the world for something. And that’s what he was sent to the world for. That’s who he knows himself to be. And there’s no worship. There’s no adoration here. There’s only respect, you know, that I and we have for him. I mean my God, he’s laid down his life to receive this. And he hasn’t gotten a lot of thanks for it. It’s not been…This has not given him fame and glory and, you know, a lot of gratitude from the world. And yet he has held with it for almost 40 years now. So we have a lot of respect for him. And he’s a fantastic person and a brilliant teacher.
And I recommend folks go out and just watch some of his interviews and his video teachings on Youtube and just get a sense for him. Who is this? Who is this man who has received over 40 years this multi-thousand-page communication from an Angelic, purportedly Angelic, source? And four sets of briefings from a group of individuals who say they have come to our world as a gesture of relationship to the human family to warn us of this intervention and to prepare us for our emergence into this larger universe? Wow, who is this guy? Go and have your own experience.
J: Man that’s great. Do you guys have, I mean do you all have like a church or a building or a temple or anything like that.?
RS: We have a center yes, here in Boulder. We have an office and what we call the Greater Community Sanctuary where we’ve been holding gatherings for, wow, since the early 90s in this one space. And it’s got a real spiritual Presence about it.
And we have these very rich gatherings twice a year. We have two Vigils: we hold one dedicated to Knowledge and Steps to Knowledge, the book of spiritual preparation; and the other Vigil dedicated to receiving Marshall’s teachings and getting with him in his mission to reach the world with this preparation. So we have two Vigils.
We have an Encampment we hold every year in the High Rockies, although due to Covid, that’s not going to take place this year, although we are going to do something a little different and very exciting actually. We’ll have some updates out on that soon.
And we broadcast. We broadcast at least once a month. And we just continue to get the word out. But yes, we do have a humble office and a beautiful sanctuary and a fabulous crew of people here and all over the US and all over the world who are helping us do this.
B/J: that’s great man, that’s great. I like it. Yeah.
RS: It’s a joy. It’s a joy and it’s very special. And it’s an open invitation to people who feel called by contact, by this teaching on the Greater Community, to become a student. Become a reader, read these revelations and teachings and see what this holds for you.
B/J: Yeah, I mean you know what I’m kind of getting from this, and I kind of like it, is it’s you know like you said this is a Message. There doesn’t seem to be like this pressure behind it. You know, I mean no agenda there, it feels like there’s yeah like it doesn’t seem very pressured or some sort of agenda behind. I mean, obviously there’s a certain agenda, which is to kind of get people to listen to this Message, right? But it’s not like a force-fed thing that you just…Like you must repent, or like, yeah, you’re born into sin. Yeah, yeah.
RS: Right, right. No, this is a gift and an invitation to be a part of this event in history in the world and reconnect with your own deeper nature. I mean, that’s essentially what this is. And who we are is we’re some good people working to help our world in this specific way. And it’s…I know the people who are here. I know them all by name and there’s hundreds of them. And they’re just people like any of us who were moved by this and realized what I need to get behind this and push. This needs to get out there.
J: Yeah definitely, and it definitely seems like a thing that’s I don’t want to say like self-help you know but it definitely does kind of seem like you’re bettering yourself for the purpose of you being a better person. I feel like with most religions you know it’s like so we do this for God or we do this for Allah or whatever it is. You’re basically like you’re almost a slave to your own religion, in a sense. And listening to this and kind of reading through some of the stuff, it kind of seems more of a look I’m here to tell you that there’s these Messages, right. These Messages came from God. If you listen to them you yourself can be a better person—take it or leave it. Obviously, you would rather people take it, but it doesn’t seem force-fed and it definitely seems like a betterment of just self in general.
RS: Yeah, I mean, who we are, what we express, what we value, how we treat each other—this is what we are teaching in the world. The New Message says we’re always teaching. Every day, every hour of your life, you’re teaching something. You’re affirming something, and you’re contributing that out into the physical environment that we interact with and the mental environment of thought. And so this is absolutely about not only betterment, but restoration. Because I think in the process of coming into this world, maybe any world, we lose touch with ourselves, right? We become fractured. We take in, we assimilate things that are not us and then they kind of produce like a fissure in the mind. And we’re two different people. We’re three different people. We have alternate personalities where we have different agendas. We’re going in different directions. We want to be helpful and serve others, but we also want to kind of collect for ourselves and accrue resources—money, fame, whatever. So we become unlike ourselves.
The New Message, just like any original Revelation from a Divine source in history, is about restoring us to who we were before this life so that we can contribute that in this life. Because that original self, that you that is who you really are, that has been going through the universe across lifetimes, manifesting here and there all as a process of coming home, and learning that Separation isn’t that fulfilling. You know, having my own thing in the universe doesn’t work out, right? Maybe there’s something. There’s another way. And over lifetimes we’re learning this.
That in essence is what the New Message from God is here to help us with. It’s here to help us find out who we are, what we carry and to give that so that we’re complete in being here, so that we don’t have to manifest again and again and again all over in these very challenging lives, you know, that we can kind of achieve a level of realization and contribution such that we don’t need to be in physical form. We can serve at higher levels. We can be at those levels ultimately that the Angelic Presence is at that has given the New Message in the first place.
So there’s a process underway and it is about betterment. It is about restoration. It’s about coming home to yourself. But the self we’re coming home to is the self that’s connected to life in the universe, to life. And it wants us to have a successful life, a purposeful life of contribution to serve the world that we’re facing now—not a hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago—this world.
And this world is facing environmental destruction, increasing conflict and war, Intervention from other forms of intelligent life, depletion of our resources—fresh water, so on and so forth—huge issues, right, that need contribution. So that’s what this is about. It’s making that contribution.
J: So are there any safeguards in place for you guys? And by safeguards what I mean is, you know, I mean, I’m sure most of these religions throughout history started with this pure, great intent…but I mean, let’s face it, I mean, there’s been a lot of terrible, terrible evil things done in the name of God or in the name of Allah, you know what I’m saying or for all these religions do you guys feel like you have a safeguard in place to keep your Message from being twisted in that way you know say in the next 200 years, you know? Or do you think the Message itself is the safeguard?
RS: Yeah, great question. It’s on our minds, you know. And you’re right; this happens. It’s almost inevitable. So what what keeps it alive? What keeps it original and pure? Well, a number of things. The Messenger himself has been recorded extensively, teaching, you know, explaining what this is for, what it’s about. And that’s all being made available, you know, that communication. We have a Community Site where we have a huge library of teachings from Marshall, myself, my mother Patricia—all to generate this kind of sense of unity and alignment that can go on, you know generationally.
The Revelation, the original audio, is available. It’s secure. It’s been transcribed, so the original word is intact and is going to be kept pure. That’s huge.
The community that’s forming around the New Message, which we call the Worldwide Community of the New Message, these people have been students, many of them, for many, many years. And they’re dedicated. They’ve received this directly, you know, from Marshall. And they’re on board to help keep this secure and pure and intact over time. But you know, even with all of that, the truth is, you know, Revelation becomes…starts to harden the moment it’s given into the world, right? It hardens into ideas, fixed kind of dogmatic belief systems. People typically want to, you know, have a group and start to think, “Well, I’m in the group and they’re not,” you know? “I’m a student of the New Message and they’re not.” “I’m going to be saved; they’re not.” And …I don’t know if that’s Separation. I don’t know if that’s just what happens in the mind, you know. We see other beings, I mean, it’s tribal. You start to differentiate and become tribal, yes.
So you know, that’s there. And so this has to be kept alive. It has to be birthed anew in the experience of the individual.
J: Absolutely, man.
RS: I take that seriously for myself. I’m a student of this. I’m birthing this anew, and many others are as well. And so that’s what ultimately keeps it alive, I feel.
J: Yeah, that’s good, man, because, I mean, I guess, you know, one thing that you guys have going for you is you were actually able to record these messages, you know. You’ve got the original, you know, audio, and, you know, it’s kind of hard to change that stuff up, you know. When we’re talking about all this older stuff. I mean, we’re talking, you know, stuff written on papaya and then lost, you know, and sandstorms and the Bible wasn’t written for hundreds of years till after Jesus even died. So I mean, you’ve got people making up their own stories and this and that. So it’s a little hard to kind of, you know, like I guess, keep that pure. But I guess what is going for you guys is y’all actually have this audio, you know, save it on a backup hard drive. You know, we always have this hard copy of the original Message. And unfortunately these other religions weren’t able to, you know keep that original message, I mean written and rewritten into many different languages, you know, over hundreds of years, countless times and you guys don’t have that issue.
RS: Right, I mean, I feel this is the first time that a Message from God has ever been recorded in audio form. We’re reading the original here, not something someone said, someone said, you know, like you’re saying, I know. And the alteration of revelations in history has led to some pretty big errors in understanding things that were not written, not recorded, or were related down through time incorrectly.
So I mean, here we’ve got this enormous Revelation, all of it recorded being made free online, free to people around the world. And there’s a lot of safety in that. And it’s really something to step back and kind of take, yeah, to see this whole process happening. It’s the process of a Revelation being received by a Messenger from the Creator of all life. I mean, that’s huge. And I can’t expect, you know, your listeners to just believe that’s happening. You’d have to go look at the New Message and look at Marshall, the Messenger, and see: “Is this authentic? Is this real? What am I hearing here? What is the Message? Is the message beneficial? Does it keep the power in my hands? Or does it put the power in someone else’s hands?”
You know, everyone has to go and kind of look at that for themselves. But I know for myself it’s quite something. It’s a New Message from God.
J: Do you guys consider yourselves a religion? Or do you consider it more of an ideology?
RS: It’s a tricky question because what is religion? is the first thing that comes to mind. I mean, if religion is dogma, if it’s a tribe, if it’s an in-group versus an out-group, no. If religion is a process, a practice, set of practices, that continually bring us back into contact with God within us, yes, absolutely it is a religion. It is a set of practices. It is a Community. It is a structure that supports the engagement that we would have individually with the Divine presence within us.
So will it become a worldly religion as, you know, we know them? Probably. There will be a community of people and this is their path. I hope it will be a community of people that honors other paths, that doesn’t become exclusivist or, you know, identifies solely with this, but acknowledges that this is a Message. This is the Message that they need, that they needed, and that there are others who need it as well, so…
J: Yeah, well that’s interesting, man.
RS: …we’ll have to see what happens over time.
J: Yeah, and you’re totally right, man. I mean, you know, it’s gonna be hard for, you know, you don’t expect people to just believe this stuff, you know. It’s up to you to go and read the literature. I mean, I’m sure there’s a lot of people out there that’s like, “Man, this is like a Mormon/Scientology mixed together type thing,” you know? It’s like I don’t know like you’re always gonna have, you know, the just, you know…when you’re using the words religion or God, there’s always going to be those people who are just immediately turned off. But I guess, you know, one thing to clarify…I mean, this isn’t like a Christian movement, right? Or like, this isn’t…you’re not taking from I guess other religions to create this one religion, right? I mean this is kind of supposed to be its own thing.
RS: It is.
J: It’s a New Message.
RS: That’s correct. It is a New Message. It did not arise out of a Christian tradition or a Muslim tradition. It honors the Christian tradition, the Muslim tradition for the original revelation that occurred there and what remains today after hundreds and thousands of years, but…and it is connected to them. I mean, this is part of the timeless work of the Creator and those who work with the Creator to serve humanity and to advance humanity. So it’s connected. But no, it did not arise out of any church, religion, group in the world. This is an original spark.
J: Yeah, I like that, you know, because I’ve always thought to myself, you know, it’s funny because all the religions in the world, you know, they kind of have this same basic principle. They have different beliefs, obviously, but I’ve always wondered, why do these people fight each other? Maybe they each have a piece of the puzzle and we’ve just been too busy fighting each other over who’s right, as opposed to maybe putting these pieces of the puzzle together for the bigger picture. And I feel like maybe this is just another piece to this cosmic puzzle that humanity is just trying to figure out, man.
RS: Right, right. Well, there are many reasons so much violence has occurred in the name of religion. Partly, it’s when you commit acts of violence for prosaic reasons—for resources, for security, for revenge—it always helps to have the justification of a spiritual or divine mandate, does it not?
J: Yep.
RS: That kind of helps. So a lot of what we’ve seen that has tarnished the image of religion is just humans using something that looks powerful and gives them a lot of power to do things for themselves out of their own agenda. It was never religion in the first place.
And so humanity, you know, we take what is divine and we absorb it into our cultures, our societies, our politics and we use it to do what we’ve always done: to compete, to control each other, you know? But that’s not actually religion. So let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater, right? There’s something very precious here. I mean, are you really just a brain in a skull hovering above two shoulders, going about your day eating, drinking, procreating, you know, and then eventually dying? Is that what you are? I don’t think so. I think we have a greater origin. I think we have a soul. I don’t think this is the only lifetime we’ve manifested in.
That all suggests an unseen reality that we cannot perceive with the two eyes we have now, the two ears we have now. If you believe that, then there is an inquiry you need to make into what is that Greater Reality? What am I really? What is this life really meant to be? And now out of your own intention, you’re seeking God. You’re seeking your spiritual nature.
There are many who say they are religious and they are not seeking God. They are not…They are using the label; they’re using the group; they’re using the “sacred book” to do other things, to be a head on two shoulders seeking to fulfill its own agenda. That’s really what they’re doing.
So in the end, it comes down to what are you…where are you coming from? What are you attempting to do through your life? And you know, the New Message teaches us to put on those glasses of a deeper discernment, you know, to look at others regardless of religion, regardless if they have no religion. Where are they coming from? There are phenomenal people doing great good who are total atheists, and they are not interested in religion. And little do they know, they’re serving the world; and God appreciates that, you know?
J: Yeah, absolutely.
RS: It all comes back to: Where are we coming from? What are we seeking in our lives? And so I think the New Message is an invitation for those who are seeking contribution and participation in a Greater Reality to make contact on the inside and to play their part.
J/B: Damn! I love that dude. Let’s…can we put all of that on a t-shirt? Exactly. Okay, so Reed, I know we said 9:30, so we’ve only got maybe like 30, maybe 30 more minutes. I think he said, he said…
RS: I said 7:30.
B: Oh sorry yeah. So yeah, I mean that is a…I was gonna say I have a question that like we have some time uh and and we’re on such a high note I don’t know if I I don’t know if we want to go too deep on it but uh…
RS: Well, I’m running out of time myself. So why don’t we take one more question, or maybe we can explore one more thing before we finish up together.
B: I feel like the question I was going to ask might bring the mood down a little bit because I mean maybe we should ask a different question.
RS: Or maybe we should have a second conversation.
J/B: Yeah, we can do that. Let’s do it. I love the way you ended that. Yeah, I think we should end on that note because that was great and that gives us an excuse to just have you back again, man.
RS: Sure.
J: Man, this has been awesome, you know? I don’t really consider myself to be too much of like a, you know, a religious person or whatever, but I think with the stuff that you say, man, you’re kind of hooking and reeling me in a little bit on this stuff. And I gotta say, man even though I’m not, I thoroughly enjoy…
RS: It’s the truth. It’s the truth hooking and reeling you in, but nothing I’m doing…it’s just…Hey, the truth is the truth. And we have the power to discern that from what is not the truth.
J/B: it’s just such a fresh perspective man something that you don’t normally hear. Yeah. And I really do enjoy the, you know, the literature and kind of reading through it. And it’s been an absolute pleasure, man, honestly. Yeah.
RS: Great guys, thank you. This is fabulous; thank you for having me.
J/B: thanks so much for being on the show man yeah this was great yeah yeah so we’ll have you back again man but uh well hey man I hope you have a great rest of your evening man and enjoy that and uh we’ll set something up for the future.
RS: Good, good; there’s a lot more to talk about. It’s a big, big picture.
J/B: Absolutely man it definitely seems like it well all right man uh well thanks for coming on again and uh you have a great evening all right all right.
RS: Joe, thanks. And thanks, Ben. Bye
J/B: Hey thank you, man; take it easy, man.